December 14, 2006

  • …debate…

    Rosie’s words have sparked some debate between myself and David, a fellow Xangan. If you have a moment, I encourage you to read through it, despite its length. Race is a highly volatile issue in our society and we must engage one another in such dialogues.

    David:
    hahah. i’m not saying communities DON’T exist. I’m saying that they
    should not. I’m saying there is no NEED for a community. I’m saying
    that individuals make up communities. Thus, if you respect the rights
    of the individual, then you inherently respect the rights of the
    community. There is no need to protect the collective, the “public
    good”, or the “community” if you protect individual rights. That is a
    fact.

    Do you actually believe that all the shouting and fuss
    that african americans have been making about every single “n-word”
    comment and racist remark made by a public figure has done ANYTHING for
    their “community”? What has it gained them? They are no longer fighting
    for equal rights. They are legally equal and have the same
    opportunities, yet they continue to demand special treatment. That they
    somehow are too weak-minded to sustain VERBAL blows to their psyche and
    self-esteem? Is this the state and model that you want to follow?

    eliminate
    the ignorance through example. THROUGH ACTION. Not by whining and
    saying you’re easily offended by every racist comment that is made.
    That saying “CHING CHONG” is somehow really offensive and hurts the
    very fabric of how we define ourselves. That is ridiculous. Are you
    afraid to live as an individual and show that no matter what words are
    thrown at us, we will still prevail? Are you too afraid to rely on your
    own individual effort to show your true character? Must you make a huge
    collective advertising effort to shout to the masses, “WE ARE
    INDIVIDUALS!”, when every way you behave is like a collective….saying
    “WE ARE THE SAME!”. If you want to be treated as an individual, then
    act like one. Do not define yourself by your race or be offended by any
    comments towards your race. Prove to them that none of it matters.
    Passive? Meek? Pshhh. I rather seem passive and successful, than a
    sensitive whiner that depends on others for my own happiness and
    success. If to be a “whining minority” is what you seek, and believe
    this is the source of respect…than you are severly mistaken.

    Respect
    must be earned on an individual basis, by the actions and merit of your
    character. Not by how much your race bonds together and demands it by
    the volume of their shouting.

    my response:
    I think you’re the shining example of everything that the hegemonic majority wants: you are the perfect model minority. You’ve bought into America’s ideal of pulling oneself up by one’s bootstraps and not looking at the context of one’s circumstances. Here’s a newsflash, people start off at differing educational and socio-economic levels. Were you born here? Were your parents born here? Was English your first language? Are you the first in your family to go to college? What socio-economic level do you come from? What educational background do your parents possess? These are the questions that you need to take into consideration before making broad sweeping statements that discount the contributions and significance of communities because for a large part of the immigrant community, many parents don’t speak English whatsoever, kids have to deal with a generational gap in addition to dealing with the language barrier, and so on. While these are not excuses as to why an individual can’t succeed on his or her own, they are valid justifications for the existence of communities. I won’t presume your background, but I do think you speak from a very priviledged position that many do not have the luxury of speaking from, and while that may be a testament to your work ethic, it could also be that you had more resources available to you than others. Regardless, communities serve a very important role, and an individual’s support of them does not mean that they have thrown away their own individual identity in exchange for the collective one; that’s such a binary way of looking at things. I, personally, support my communities because most of their issues resonate with me, and doing so does not mean that I lose my on individual worth.

    As for the African American community, I’m not sure how they got involved in the conversation, but do you honestly believe that they’re treated equally now? Yes, the law is SUPPOSED to be color blind, but do you really believe that it is? Do you really expect me to believe that after their more than 200+ years of slavery and more than 300+ years of racialized conditioning that they are inferior to the dominant hegemonic group, that now, they’re equal?! That with the rewording and/or abolishment of a couple of amendments in a highly racialized Constitution that we can forget and forgive the kind of social conditioning that we as a society have undergone?! That’s the biggest bunch of bull I’ve ever heard. The fact of the matter is that they, along with other communities of color, are STILL trying to achieve racial parity where we’re not racially profiled, detained without just cause, or are the butt of racially demeaning jokes by people who feign ignorance of the racial repercussions of their actions.

    Lastly, I find it rather hypocritical that you stress the need for action, yet you denounce my and other API’s current actions to stand up for ourselves in favor of your approach to turning the other cheek. I chose to voice my discontent as opposed to your passive strategy of brushing it off, and yet, my and others’ actions aren’t seen as actions, but as whining? How do you figure? When do you finally cross that boundary where you stand up and say enough is enough? When do you open your eyes to see that this world is incredibly racialized and it will take sensitivity to rectify the past wrongs that have been made? In my eyes, the fact that I voiced my displeasure and sought to correct what I saw as a mistake was an assertion of my agency, not whining. Moreover, I completely agree that respect must be earned, but bear in mind that negligence of the issues and being a passive model minority will only reinforce and perpetuate the existing stereotypes.

    In an ideal world, we would all be judged by our merits and actions, but sadly, America and our society are not meritocracies. The rights you have today, as an individual, as a person of color, came from communities coming together to “whine” for true parity and equality. Yes, your parents gave you life, but the very same people and actions you’re currently admonishing are the ones who’ve carried on the legacy of fighting for the very same equality that you’re enjoying, so pardon our “shouting”.

Comments (26)

  • Ty you nailed it i’m said…What you wrote was beautiful!

  • i agree with both of you. i think that it’s good to also know how to pick one-self up and be an “individual” but yet also have to stick with and defend your own background too… because obviously we’re a minority, so whatever that happens, we could be easilyy blamed… so I agree wif you too. ai yah!

  • thanks for your respnses to david’s postings. i’ve met soo many ppl like him that i’ve become too tired to respond anymore. your responses were very refreshing and excellently put.

  • lol, DavidNgo. Yeah. I had some issues with his response too. But I’ve been so busy with finals that I haven’t responded at all. Your ideas are almost the same as mine.. and your response is almost exactly what I wanted to say to him. I guess AAA does that to you, eh? :)

    RYC: Yeah, I saw the Rosie apology. She was like, “I’m sorry, but hey, I might do it again! Who cares!”

  • Ehh I feel like those two arguments can be summed up in an individualist-vs-collectivist attitude … am I right?

  • it’s hard to judge on merit when it’s easier to judge what’s right in front of your eyes. but good argument.

  • well Ty it IS his opinion….he brings up some good points. It’s weird…normally I would be offended, but this time I am not. huh?

  • you make some very intelligent and valid points.  legally we may all be “equal” but the reality is totally different.  refusing to acknowledge this unfortunate reality is dangerous.  O’donnell’s “ching-chong” comments were made on national tv and they merit a strong and swift response from the AA community.  we cannot stay silent.

  • I totally agree with you. I am little disturbed by his “weak minded” comment. If it wasn’t for African Americans and the countless lives that stepped out in hope, America would not be the nation it is today. He talks about action, but I really don’t see what type of “action” he is taking to resolve anything. Then again inaction is a form action, the one that goes no where. Anyway, I appreciate that you feel the need to speak up. Like Martin Luther King once said, “we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends”.  Thanking for breaking the silence on an important issue.

  • “I think you’re the shining example of everything that the hegemonic majority wants: you are the perfect model minority. You’ve bought into America’s ideal of pulling oneself up by one’s bootstraps and not looking at the context of one’s circumstances.”

    – hahha. hegemonic majority? Once again, defining people by their race. wow. your racism is really engrained isn’t it? majority vs. the minority. This is how you view the world, because you are a collectivist. “perfect model minority”? What the hell is that supposed to mean? Is that supposed to be an insult? You’re assuming I buy into your paranoid collectivist view that somehow the majority (i.e. white people) are controlling the world are hoping so fiercely that I don’t complain about them saying “ching chong”, because that is the source of their power over me. I am kept from success and happiness because they have the ability to mock my language and demeanor. hahaha. ridiculous.

    Bought into the American philosophy of individual effort and “pulling myself up by my bootstraps”? absolutely I have. That is the best thing about this country. That I have the freedom and ability to pursue my happiness as far as my effort will take me.

    Your excuses of “oh, well I didn’t start with the opportunities that the next guy did” is complete bullshit. For every story you have about someone not being “lucky” enough to start with wealth or the right “skin color” I can give you 10 more stories about how despite any of those things, people have been able to start companies, become wealthy, and find their happiness. (I could also go into how my own parents started from nothing and were extremely successful without any help or support from your supposed “community”.) This is the thing that makes this country great, and why it is the freest nation in the world.

    I am not saying racism does not exist. I am also not saying that everyone starts off at the same level of opportunity. That is just a fact of life that you must deal with. But in America, unlike any other country, allows people to rise above any adversity as long as they are willing to put in the effort, and has the laws which protect our individual rights to create this freedom.

    I am not saying there aren’t challenges to achieving one’s happiness, but nothing of any worth is easy. That does not mean the solution to these challenges is whining and shouting about how offensive every racially charged comment is. The solution isn’t to institute widespread racism through quota systems or affirmative action. The solution isn’t to complain about every comedian who makes anything remotely racist. None of those things will bring you any closer to your individual happiness or success. You can try all you want to be the “asian activist” who’s fighting for social justice. But your philosophy and your viewpoint is highly flawed. Because you fail to see that you can NEVER eliminate racism by defining yourself by your race. You cannot create a world that sees people based on their merit and character if you don’t do that of yourself. If you don’t view you and everyone else as INDIVIDUALS. Not part of some collective or “community”.

    Again, when I speak of action, i do not mean the kind that you are attempting to do. It’s futile and irrational. By action I mean proving your own worth and achieving TRUE pride and self-esteem through your individual efforts and achievements. Stereotypes are not eliminated by censoring everyone from saying or thinking them. Even if you are successful at eliminating all “racial comments” from people’s speech, you can NEVER….NEVER eliminate those thoughts simply through censorship.

    The only way to eliminate stereotypes is to show that they are untrue through your actions. And it’s even more hilarious that you are offended by these comments because they are so insignificant. The stereotypes that asians have in this country are hardly offensive by any stretch of the imagination. Ask anyone on the street to name some stereotypes about asians. You’ll get, “smart, hardworking, good at math, polite, passive, successful” and the worst of them have to do with stupid things like “talking funny”, “being nerdy”, “or eating strange foods”. hahha. I mean COME ON! Are these actually that bad? Do you really think those things are somehow preventing you from achieving your happiness?

    One day you’ll realize that your happiness and self-esteem will never be increased or found by defining yourself as “asian” and fighting for these supposed “asian issues”, but by working diligently towards your own individual goals and success. Until then, we can never reconcile our differences on this issue.

  • ryc: yes the show is worth every penny. then again, i’m a MAJOR fan (like some guys LOVE mariah, or whitney, or whatever, I love celine), so I think all her work is amazing and worth every penny. but the show in itself, the visual aspects are all really amazing. :) you should come with when i go, haha!

  • Interesting debate. I do have to admit that I just skim over D.N.’s comments usually, because they’ve always been so long. I haven’t gotten engaged in a debate with him yet, and I’d probably have to hire someone just to sit there and read his comments, they’re so damn long.

    While we’re on controversial topics, since you’re a G*ggle baby, I’d like to get your views on my latest entry. It actually touches on some areas that your co is dabbling with.

  • hey, i’m with the aclu

  • ahh to be in a bubble of warm, fuzzy, idealistic thoughts.

    it’s one thing to be optimistic… and another thing to completely ignore what Asian Americans have been fighting against since the US Govt created the “Model Minority” during the Civil Rights Movement.

  • Hi Ty!!  It was so nice seeing you this weekend!!  :)

  • Im gone for two weeks and this is what your posting? where is the blue… oy! you need an almond royal thats for sure.

    I think these arguements tend to have no middle ground. One side wants legal explicit recognition of equality while the other maintains that such equality already exists and merely wants to socially not be recognized as a minority, but as an individual.

  • Merry X’mas

  • Interesting debate.  I’d disagree with NanYu and say that there is a middle ground, but that both sides get so charged up by the issue that neither can look find it.

    It is important that people speak up when offensive, discriminatory, or downright stupid remarks are made especially by people with high visibility, lest silence equal consent.  The speaking up ensures a vigorous public debate about these issues, raises awareness, and heightens sensibilities – although it doesn’t change everyone’s opinions.

    At the same time, you can only spend so much time and energy shouting at the ignorant.  Racism, discrimination, etc. have always existed in humanity and will probably continue to for a long, long time.  At some point we have to build our own lives and our own successes regardless of the circumstances we find ourselves in.

  • take that race stuff off ur mind for two seconds to enjoy the holiday! merry christmas

  • I like what you said in your previous post, about appreciating diversity, embracing it, not mocking it. I think deep down this doesn’t stem from racism, but ignorance, of which most negative traits are merely byproducts.

  • GOOD GOD there goes the debate…I love how Rosie always got stuff to say..the girl is like fearless.

  • Hey.. thanks for the coment.. sorry for such a late response…:D Happy Holidays & a Happy New Year!

  • RYC: As long as you have a fight, keep fighting.  The middle way can only be defined by the extremes on either side, so you have an important role to play by fighting the ignorance that’s out there.

    Happy holidays to you, too.

  • oh wow, I feel like I dropped by in the middle of an intense debate. Let me offer my two cents and say that Rosie is a hypocrite to criticize Kelly Ripa for her apparent homophobic reaction to Clay Aiken, while she refuses to recognize her own racist comments by saying its “Only ’cause it’s how my brain works.”

    Anyways, my main reason I’m commenting is because I wanted to know which Christy works with you. If it’s Christy Wong, please say hi to her as well!

  • our friend davidngo is being too idealistic and unrealistic.  yes, there have been instances where people have risen up the ranks, but he is ignorant of the quite small number that has and that there are still hurdles that are imposed or never corrected by the majority…this can be seen from the field of Academia to the glamour of Hollywood.  How long did it take for the U.S. government to make reparations for the internment of the Japanese during WWII?  Worst of all, our friend davidngo has completely belittled the history of the struggle for equality, not only the Civil Rights Movement but the Asian American Movement.  “ching chong ching chong” as uttered by Rosie may seem small but doesn’t ignorance, prejudice, and hate start out in such “small” doses?  The utterance of the “n” word (it’s just a word right?) is unjust because it beckons and reflects the heinous offense that is slavery.  Moreover, davidngo doesn’t realize that in our time when people can be easily distracted and moved by fear, that by letting such “small” injustices go reflects an apathy and complacency that has allowed and will permit unfair legislations such as the Patriot Act to pass.  If you can’t recognize this as injustice, if you were to treat is as small, insignificant, and inconsequential, how would you discern that racism and prejudice continue to exist and are only evolving, being masked under such things as the fervor of patriotism and constant bombardment of fear of the threat of terror?  One word, discern.  

  • :] HAPPY BNEW YEARS!!

    aah 2007! can believe its finaly here
    and ill be 18!! CRAZZZYYY

    lol wtv ill always be at kid :D

    lol laterdayssss
    have funnnn

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